Arnold Waldstein's Blog - Latest Comments

Re: To me this is excitement. First taste of Bernard...

jonathan hegranes — Wed, 16 May 2012 16:24:43 -0000

Uh. Jealous would be an understatement...

Enjoy! Looking forward to hearing about it, and an email is forthcoming.

Re: To me this is excitement. First taste of Bernard...

awaldstein — Wed, 16 May 2012 16:10:00 -0000

I am hopelessly behind in my wine blogging.

With work and with my new project, time is just not there.

Let's set a time for a glass of wine. Send me an email and we will get it on the calendar.

BTW...and be jealous...off to London this weekend for a dinner with Jura winemakers then two days at the RAW natural wine fair with a focus on Georgian and Slovinian wine.

Re: To me this is excitement. First taste of Bernard...

jonathan hegranes — Wed, 16 May 2012 16:05:24 -0000

Adding to the list... Fortunately I'm due for a trip to Chambers in the very near future.

Any tasting notes???

Re: The community commerce conundrum

jonathan hegranes — Sun, 13 May 2012 14:38:40 -0000

I, like many others, had to read, re-read, and further ponder this cogent post and meaty comment thread... There is a lot to digest, and I kept scrolling throughout the page as each quote and each comment took my mind in another tangent.

In the end, I think it all comes down to flow... When thinking about startups, products, ideas, services, etc., success stems from getting the user flow spot on. Depending how and why I came to your site, will affect my intention and what kind of new information I'll accept.

Thus, Facebook becomes a great venue for brand building, but good luck cementing that in a purchase. On the other hand, after visiting a few stores to find some new running shoes, I can go online to find product reviews, compare prices, and might even find something better.

The community commerce conundrum is just that, but I don't think the two go together very well.

In tracking the last few Super Bowls, there is usually a pretty balanced mix of purchase-intent ads (e.g. a free breakfast at Denny's) with ads that are all about brand... sometimes awareness (such as Budweiser Platinum) or attitude (such as Chevy) or some combination.

Interesting to see how certain products / brands think about the same venue (whether it's an ad during the Super Bowl or an add on Facebook) differently. I still think the most successful will match their offering with the user's flow and intent. When integrating community, certainly a tough endeavor to cement, but with a powerful reward -- for there is nothing more rewarded (profits, PE multiples, etc) than a company with a passionate following.

The trick is not polluting the community river with the stench of advertising, or feeling like the community is about anything else than driving another sale.

Re: The community commerce conundrum

Matthew A. Myers — Sun, 13 May 2012 13:57:41 -0000

I made a comment at AVC where you linked to this thread; I'm just going to copy/paste it as it connects with your statement, "the web is about me. And you. And each of us individually on one platform that we all inhabit;"

This fits in well with the idea that there is no macro in economics, only micro - which then make up the perception of a macro.

Focus on the micro/context and the macro will exist naturally.

Re: The community commerce conundrum

awaldstein — Fri, 11 May 2012 19:54:10 -0000

This molecular metaphor I like a lot.

Engagio's vision in its purest form is not simply to surface these molecules of engagement, some stronger and more contextual like from a blog conversation.

Some lighter weight derived from gestures from Facebook or Twitter or a check in on GetGlue.

Engagio's promise is to surface and present these conversations in a weighted fashion so that a natural order of influence and a corresponding order of connection starts to emerge.

Big heady promise but I see this as a vision worth building towards.

Re: The community commerce conundrum

awaldstein — Fri, 11 May 2012 19:47:53 -0000

Your point is really well taken.

I have a tendency to write off 'gestures' as non engaging. That's not completely correct.

It's more like a multilayered funnel of engagement, like a lead funnel, except that its broader, deeper and more complex with all these different atomic parts.

Really good point.

Re: The community commerce conundrum

William Mougayar — Fri, 11 May 2012 18:35:09 -0000

I've been thinking about this topic this week. There is a distinction between social commerce and social influence that refers you to a commercial transaction. We are influenced by our friends all the time before buying anything. We are all making comments in bite sizes on social networks and commenting communities about brands. Facebook may want to re-purpose those comments as advertising, and that's dangerous if they do.

Re: The community commerce conundrum

William Mougayar — Fri, 11 May 2012 18:33:43 -0000

I don't think it will come from the social gesture on Facebook, but it could be from a comment on Facebook that says "this product is cool. i like it." Would that influence you to buy that product? We do it all the time with wine as the product and there are other products like that.

Re: The community commerce conundrum

Dave Pinsen — Fri, 11 May 2012 13:34:49 -0000

Thanks. Now for the hard part.

awaldstein wrote, in response to Dave Pinsen:
Seems like we've filled a 'virtual' whiteboard with your market.

I'm sure you have plans to attack these.

Thanks for sharing. Loved doing this actually.
Link to comment

Re: The community commerce conundrum

awaldstein — Fri, 11 May 2012 06:03:44 -0000

Seems like we've filled a 'virtual' whiteboard with your market.

I'm sure you have plans to attack these.

Thanks for sharing. Loved doing this actually.

Re: The community commerce conundrum

Dave Pinsen — Fri, 11 May 2012 00:56:09 -0000

Looking forward to that.

Re: The community commerce conundrum

Dave Pinsen — Fri, 11 May 2012 00:53:48 -0000

Good point about education. Boiling the ocean definitely isn't a good strategy. I should have been more precise in my previous comment. There are at least two groups of investors who don't currently hedge with options:

1) Those who get the general idea, but don't know how best to actually do it. Portfolio Armor is the missing piece for them.

2) Those who don't get the general idea and need basic education.

Now, you're right that it doesn't make sense for me to focus on group 2) directly. The Options Industry Council already offers resources to them via its site (free classes, free live chats with experts, toll-free number, etc.). Since the OIC's goal is to get more investors to use options, and since Portfolio Armor facilitates that by making it easy for investors to hedge, there ought to be a way to get the OIC to let people know about PA. Not sure how best to approach them though.

The first group -- those who get the general idea but not the nuts & bolts of doing it -- could be targeted in partnership with a big discount broker. Investors need to apply to a brokerage to get authorized to use options; a natural market for PA would be those investors who have have successfully applied for options authority but have done little or no options trades (presumably, because it seemed too complicated). This is probably the best potential channel for PA -- having a big discount brokerage give the app to its users who have options authority but haven't used it much. Getting to the key individuals at these brokerages is another challenge I need to figure out.

Re: The community commerce conundrum

Aaron Klein — Thu, 10 May 2012 14:57:21 -0000

We're hoping we can help Dave play a role with "natural education" in Riskalyze. Time will tell! :)

Re: The community commerce conundrum

awaldstein — Thu, 10 May 2012 14:30:43 -0000

I've usually shied away from marketing models that require market education. Traditionally long and expensive.

But to broaden your base you need to get to less sophisticated investors and this sounds like education to me.

Isn't that educational situation, one way, through partners or financial advisors, to bring socialization and a sense of community into the mix?

Not within PA but as a lead funnel?

Re: The community commerce conundrum

Dave Pinsen — Thu, 10 May 2012 14:22:38 -0000

Thanks for the kind words, Aaron. As you know, I am bullish on you and Riskalyze.

You're right about the clarity of PA's value proposition to investors who already grok the role of options in hedging. The challenge is broadening that to investors who are concerned about risk but don't grok that connection. PA addresses part of that with its minimalism and ease of use. The other part of that is getting the word out to more investors.

PA has an advantage in that there isn't currently another tool that answers the questions it does. There are other diversification tools, albeit not as advanced, precise, and sophisticated as Riskalyze. So it makes sense that users are more likely to see the clear advantages of Riskalyze after using it.

I agree that there is likely more potential scale for Riskalyze (partly because it's not always practical to hedge), and you will also be able to generate some exciting additional value at scale (thinking of our discussion early this year).

The only way I can think of putting community to work inside PA is by giving current users incentives to tell their friends/social networks about it. I'm curious to see how that will work as part of the pending big round of updates on the mobile side, though it may require more scale before the results of sharing are noticeable.

Re: The community commerce conundrum

awaldstein — Thu, 10 May 2012 14:14:26 -0000

It's impacting me strongly.

At first, I wasn't sure. But once you internalize the idea that the web is about me. And you. About individuals and individuality, the impact is dramatic.

One-to-many models like Facebook and Twitter are still valid but become media siloes not community runways

Many-to-many becomes the true model for the web in general and community become the grounding dynamic structure.

The import behind the words are powerful.

Still reading as time allows. Have a flight to London next week and I'll finish it.

Re: The community commerce conundrum

Aaron Klein — Thu, 10 May 2012 14:07:29 -0000

Putting this on the to-do list.

Re: The community commerce conundrum

markslater — Thu, 10 May 2012 14:04:08 -0000

how are you liking intention economy?

Re: The community commerce conundrum

awaldstein — Thu, 10 May 2012 13:36:17 -0000

Let's brainstorm and pitch it.

Or maybe we could simply do a meet-up and do it ourselves!

Re: The community commerce conundrum

Aaron Klein — Thu, 10 May 2012 13:34:27 -0000

That would be a great panel! We should do that in New York some time.

Re: The community commerce conundrum

awaldstein — Thu, 10 May 2012 13:18:23 -0000

Great comment with a number of key ideas.

Community inside the app or out is the one that jumps at me.

And even though your models are completely different, my bet is that both of you will have pieces of your communities both in and outside the app. Albeit with different focus.

Innovations around community and financial services would make a great panel. I'd love to lead it with you guys as presenters.

Re: The community commerce conundrum

Aaron Klein — Thu, 10 May 2012 12:52:18 -0000

One thing really strikes me about Portfolio Armor, and I can't think of a better place to express it than here in this conversation.

The value proposition and what a user will get out of buying Portfolio Armor is very straightforward, simple and clear. If you believe in using options to insure your portfolio against losses, it's really clear that you're going to get an effective solution that saves you time and money by buying PA.

On the other hand, it's another road further to believe that the objective, mathematical results from Riskalyze are going to be something you'll use in your portfolio. You sort of have to see our results to understand how powerful and useful they are for turning your ideas into decisions, and keeping your portfolio balanced and diversified.

I write all of this to say...it's very clear to me that we're both on the right track in regard to our respective models. I don't see (off the top of my head) how you can make PA more effective for me when my friends use it. And you've clearly got the advantage of being able to extract upfront revenue because users instinctively understand what they will get in return.

On the other hand, I need to use the scale of the web to deliver my product for free, and focus on extracting value when users put my results to work. I'm very confident in that model and excited about it. I'd say it might end up scaling higher than yours, but it's a much longer road to success than yours.

So there's no question that you need to go find communities that want your app - that's basic marketing and you're good at it. But there's an open question as to whether you want or need to put community to work inside your app.

Maybe you'll find a brilliant way to do that which increases the value of the app and boosts your sales, but I think PA is going to be wildly successful with or without that.

Re: The community commerce conundrum

Aaron Klein — Thu, 10 May 2012 12:40:17 -0000

You better believe it!

Re: The community commerce conundrum

awaldstein — Thu, 10 May 2012 09:52:42 -0000

Thanks.

I'm working to write about things that I haven't figured out and to break them down into bite sized pieces.

Learning a bit more every day.